Everyone acknowledges that Judaism spawned Christianity?

But why do some seem to think that Judaism sprang to life fully formed? Jews trace their ancestry to the biblical patriarch Abraham. Abraham and his family were originally from the city of Ur (now known as Tell Muqqayyar in southern Iraq), which was an ancient city in Sumeria.





Sumer was the earliest known civilization of the ancient Near East, located in lower Mesopotamia (modern Iraq). The Mesopotamian religion was the first to be recorded.





Mesopotamians believed that the world was a flat disc, surrounded by a huge, holed space, and above that, heaven. They also believed that water was everywhere, the top, bottom and sides, and that the universe was born from this enormous sea.





Sound familiar? God moved over the face of the what? There are many other 'borrowed elements'. There are no good records from before that (need to invent writing and all), but how much would you wager this goes all the way back to the first sun- and moon worship in an unbroken chain of mutating gods?

Everyone acknowledges that Judaism spawned Christianity?
Its always amusing when people try to force their theories to fit the facts. But the bible states that god existed before anything else- It starts with him creating something, in the beginning there is nothing for him to be moving over until the start 'Beresishit bara Elokim et hashamaiam v'et ha'aretz" In the beginning God created the Heavens and the earth. that is how the Torah starts- not with a sea or anything else- but with nothingness and God bringing something forth from nothing.





So no similiarity as much as you would like to claim otherwise.
Reply:I'm sitting back, waiting for the answers.
Reply:i wonder what it will be like, when other things religions claim will prove themselfs to be wrong
Reply:To quote the book itself, "there is nothing new under the sun"
Reply:The Sumerians had horrible gods, and the object of a Sumerian's life was not to piss those gods off. I doubt that Judaism was fully formed, I think it probably took several generations, and then many years after that Christianity came into the picture.
Reply:Of course it was not born fully formed.





Most of Genesis stories were around in some form long before.





If you compare some of the biblical laws to the code of Hammurabi you will notice clear similarities and distinct differences.





No religion, including Judaism was created in a vacuum, because the people who adhered to it also did not live in a vacuum.





--As a side note I am Jewish, and the fact that my religious scripture was shaped by those that preceded it dose not bother me in the least. How stupid would it be to form a theology that has nothing to do with the other people around you. Ideas and concepts are always borrowed.





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Jesus Chris† Supers†ar


do you even know what the Talmud is or when it was written?
Reply:New 'beliefs' aren't brand spanking new, they are generally created to incorporate earlier existing beliefs to make it more palatable for people to accept change. Look what happened in Egypt when Akhenaten abruptly introduced monotheism to an Egypt that was used to polytheism. It was not accepted because the change was not gradual and as such when Smenkhkare became Pharaoh polytheism was returned.
Reply:Excellent question, unfortunately I dont see you getting many useful answers.





Most of the stories from the OT/Talmud are borrowed from another religion or meant to refute the beliefs of another religion.
Reply:This sounds rather incoherent and contradictory to me.





For instance, the belief that "the universe was born from this enormous sea" does not gel whatsoever with "God moved over the face of the earth". From what I read just above, Mesopotamian belief says that the sea is the creator. Christianity / Judaism says that God is the creator. Again, hardly the same.
Reply:Of course, even Jewish and Catholic theologians admit Abraham probably never existed. But don't tell the True Christians that.
Reply:Romans spawned Christianity
Reply:Thanks for the history lesson.


It all sounds perfectly logical to me.


I wonder how the fundies will react - not positively methinks.





There musta been some interaction with the Egyptians* cos (I think) that's where mono-theism was first muted under Akhenaten.


And that had to benefit someone (the rulers?) cos it sure wouldn't have been because of actual belief, could it? Rhetorically speaking.


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Reply:Wrong.It is the diametric opposite of Christianity.
Reply:A good 'question'.


I learn something new every day. This forum is most educational.


Let's hope everyone takes full advantage of this free service.
Reply:The absolute best thing to compare to the Biblical texts are the Ugaritic texts: they are Canaanite documents, contemporary with the Biblical narratives. You can clearly see where a lot of the Canaanite influence seeped in to the popular beliefs, and a lot of the Biblical "idolatry" narratives make more sense. The cult of Yahweh seems to have gone through a series of priestly purges, including historical rewrites to make sure everything lined up with their agenda. Most of the books in the Hebrew Bible did not assume their present form until around the time of the Babylonian exile, and they have been edited multiple times by different groups.





None of this changes the spiritual truths which can be found in the book when properly interpreted (the reason for all the editing was, ultimately, to present a particular view of God), but most people have no idea of the textual history.





Peace to you.